Fair enough, indeed, z.

A similar question of taste arose with the Eclipse company's TRUE CRIME card sets from a the early 1990's. The sets featured Prohibition era gangsters on half of the cards which didn't seem to bother anyone, but the other half featured serial killers and mass murderers.

While all of the cards were meticulously researched and well written with top quality illustrators providing the generally photorealistic artwork, only the gangster cards really came off as the history lesson they were intended to be. The serial killer cards were, to a great many, simply depictions of a selection of monsters all too real, people in no way worthy of immortalizing on trading cards, which much more so at that time, had a way of making it into the hands of kids.

Eclipse was not helped by a slew of smaller companies at the same time who were also producing "serial killer" cards. These cards, box sets mostly, were certainly less scholarly in their research efforts and featured much more confrontational art styles. Far more than the Eclipse cards these smaller sets screamed of exploitation, but the often broad brush of public opinion applied to controversial subject matter did not spare Eclipse, and they were widely derided, this despite the fact that the True Crime card did hold merit, in so far as adding to the study of Abnormal Psychology. If nothing else, they provided profiles of the types of people who commit such heinous acts as well as the ghastly methods they employed. The future is affected by the study of the past, after all.

So while I personally did find value in the Eclipse made "true Crime" cards (and as such collected them), I can certainly see why others would object to their existence. There is a definite "ick" factor.

Finally, I don't know if its still true, however for a time at least, Ebay prohibited the sale of these cards on their site, considering them to be in the realm of the cleverly titled "murderabilia".

I suspect Ebay would still not allow their sale, which is interesting if you consider this:

Immediately in the aftermath of the horrific massacre at Virginia Tech 2 years ago, it was reported that the shooter had an Ebay account. While he purchased his guns illegally at a local gun show, it turned out he purchased the clips to hold the extra bullets he would use that awful day, on Ebay.

Less restrictive in those days, I was able to see his actions as a buyer and seller by doing a simple completed search. Along with some tickets he sold to a VT sporting event, there they were. With the shooter's Ebay ID shown as high bidder, you could see the full auction description and photographs of the actual implements he would use only weeks later to kill 25 people.

This is a rhetorical question, but I would not discourage answers that are well considered. How can it be that Ebay would not have allowed that shooter buy a trading card with a picture of a murderer on it, while at the same time allowing him to purchase the very ammunition holders he would almost immediately after use to to commit a horrific series of crimes?

I have no problem with the 2nd Amendment, so I hope I am not misunderstood. My point is this. Not allowing some kind of content will not stop a murderer if murder is the intention, just as viewing such materials will not necessarily make someone into a murderer. We must be responsible for ourselves, and part of that is deciding whether or not you would be interested in cards accusing individuals of torture.

So I would never argue that those who didn't want them should want them, but does that mean that those who do want them should not be allowed to have them?

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:
So I would never argue that those who didn't want them should want them, but does that mean that those who do want them should not be allowed to have them?

No it doesn't, as long as those who do want them don't infringe upon the rights of those who don't. How's that for a short answer?

Actually these cards have a very political agenda, which is quite different from mass murderer cards that people might regard as offensive. As someone already pointed out, if you ask for them you can expect to be added to someone's mailing list. If you're in it for the cards, you also have to take the cause.

Well, if you happen to get on their physical mailing list, I know there are plenty of political memorabilia collectors that would probably want to collect whatever else they might send to you in the mail, no matter what it is. As far as any other email they might send you, basically you could approach this in the same manner that you would any other spam you might receive. delete it. At least with this spam you might receive, you would get a collectible set of cards along with it for your troubles. How often do any of the other spammers that send you **** also send you a collectible item along with it?
Joey

If you call torture political. If you say it is OK for people in positions of power to break the law and violate our constitution, then we need to remind them of what 'we' really stand for.
Ace

and again, if you want to call waterboarding 3 terrorists "torture" to get info to save the lives of potentially thousands others and perserve our way of life, then so be it.

and besides, people in power have been "breaking the law and violate our constitution" on a daily basis for decades now, maybe a little bit of always. It just tends to be down political lines when people get "outraged"...until its their teams...err...political party gets caught in the moral cross-hairs...then it magically always becomes "no big deal".

I'm sure Hitler would agree with you.

Godwins law 1
"If in the course of a debate, you compare an opposing persons viewpoint as akin to comparable to hitler's, then you have automatically lost the debate".

P.s. i said i would not support or order free "holocaust denier" cards if they were offered by a pro iranan PAC. not comparing anyone to anything, just stating what i would not do (before you go down that road).

So if you support Hitler's viewpoint you win!?
Let me guess. You still believe that global warming & evolution is debatable.

I received my free pack of 10 cards today. They are printed on good quality card stock and the "pack" they come in is a nicely designed little storage container for them.

There appears to be 2 different packs of 10 cards. I'm not sure if everyone who ordered only the free one will receive the same pack as I did, but if so, the bigger names in it are Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, Michael Chertoff, and George Tenet.

So that would mean the other pack should hold
Condoleeza Rice, George W. Bush, Colin Powell, Alberto Gonzalez, and the Rumsfeld/Cheney combo rookie card. If anyone who ordered the free pack alone gets this other pack, please do let me know. I'm curious if the free pack is sent out at random and could be either of the two, or if they are only sending out free the same pack as the one I received, and thus, the only way to attain the entire set of 20 would be to purchase it. If so, that would mean the other pack (with the Bush card in it), is very likely produced in a much smaller quantity. If both packs are being sent out as freebies, the print run is probably the same for all 20 cards.

I'm considering ordering the whole set, and it says 2009 First Edition on it, so maybe they plan on making more? I loved the Eclipse and Kitchen Sink political box sets in the late 80's and early 90's, (and even the Politi-Cards set from last year) so these fit in nicely those, although those Eclipse sets often featured superb painted art on slightly oversized cards so I consider those sets more appealing as cards go.

Got mine today. Sounds like I got the same "free" pack as you did.
Ace

I got a sealed envelope with a letter, but the cards were missing.

quote:

Originally posted by Ace of Hearts:
So if you support Hitler's viewpoint you win!?
Let me guess. You still believe that global warming & evolution is debatable.

Nope, the rule is simple. You compare another person to Hitler, according to Godwin’s rule, you have automatically lost the debate. That’s all...as for the other issue...if your belief in a theory is so weak, that the thought of debate on the theory is an assault to you, you probably should rethink them...maybe pull back a little. At that point the theory of evolution and global warming stop being housed in the realm of science and start being moved over into the realm of religious zealotry. (and for the record, I think the theory of evolution is very fun...its just a theory that sorta makes sense but its not something we can prove yet really, we just dont know anywhere near enough to move that one into the hard and fast fact list yet)...as for global warming, i think the world is getting warmer...and eventually it will get cooler...and eventually it will get warmer...and someday it wont be there anymore...whats not to believe about that?

quote:

Originally posted by chesspieceface:

So that would mean the other pack should hold
Condoleeza Rice, George W. Bush, Colin Powell, Alberto Gonzalez, and the Rumsfeld/Cheney combo rookie card.

Mine arrived 5 minutes ago! I got the second pack with Rice, Bush etc. Nice looking cards. I want your pack! There is even a generic Congress card showing the Capital building sporting a baseball cap. I'm not sure why Colin Powell was included based upon the info on the card. No political statement on my part implied but where the objective of these cards is to push for "prosecution" they could have supplied some truth or distortion to verbally indict him. He is labeled only as the "Decoy".

Here is their scathing indictment of George Bush, in his own words, "The U.S. is committed to the worldwide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example".

You already have to believe in 'the cause' because the cards are devoid of any information to backup a prosecution. In short, the cards are tamer than I expected.

The message that they wish to convey is hidden inside the cardboard wrapper.

If this is really the first series, maybe the second series will feature the "other team" and depict each of the Quantanimo detainees with an all-star subset featuring those believed to have been tortured (as defined by the Center for Constitutional Rights of course).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Bill DeFranzo,

quote:

Originally posted by Monsterama2000:
I got a sealed envelope with a letter, but the cards were missing.

Same thing happened to me , one end of the envelope was open , you could see the imprint of the cards on the envelope .
sumo

My cause is just... God favors me; I decided so like all ambitious but pious leaders.

If the shoe fits...
I'm sure Himmler and the Gestapo would agree with you. They should water board all those draft dogging right wing hawks.
You care about the rules of debate but not the constitution.
The use of positioning to give your point of view equal credibility to the other is weak. One is based on science and the other on fantasy. Just because you believe in something does not make it true. They used to believe that the world was flat and that the Sun revolved around the Earth.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ace of Hearts,

quote:

Originally posted by Bill DeFranzo:
There is even a generic Congress card showing the Capital building sporting a baseball cap.

Huh? And what is the hidden meaning behind that one, too many Congressional committees on steroids in baseball maybe.

With all due respect, these cards are free and worth every penny.

We received our free set of 10 cards in today's mail too. I think I like the foldup box the most. Below are scans of the cards we received as well as the box. We ordered the full 20 card set and I will update our Gallery and scans once we have them all. What I find most funny about this set is how the blocked out the breasts of the statue on the John Ashcroft card!
Emily

Thanks for putting up the scans Emily. At least I get the baseball cap on Congress now as it just follows the rest of the cards.

quote:

Originally posted by EmilyStuart:
What I find most funny about this set is how they blocked out the breasts of the statue on the John Ashcroft card!
Emily

That was priceless!

quote:

Originally posted by Raven:
Thanks for putting up the scans Emily. At least I get the baseball cap on Congress now as it just follows the rest of the cards.

My pleasure. Here is also the letter that came with the card set we received. This seems to have nothing to do with the card set.