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Sketch card pricing.
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Diamond Card Talk Member
Picture of hammer
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Vagabond Collector:
Regardless of being a new, old-school, or even non-sketch card collector there are more products being released with sketch cards in them. Providing the best possible pricing information on these sketch cards to a newer and expanding audience is certainly not catering to niche collectors. Part of the purpose of a price guide is to be educational and that's what pricing the sketch cards would help to do for all collectors of non-sports cards.


Impossible to provide anything that wouldn't be "slated" the moment the "guide" came out. Each artist on a card set would have numerous lines by Character/colour/B&W etc.. Plus the prices are too variable to be worthwhile.
 
Posts: 11638 | Location: England | Registered: September 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of tangent
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Okay, if there were to be prices for sketch cards, here is my suggestion for how it could work. First, set up a standard set of price ranges that would apply to all sets. Suggestion:

0-20
15-40
35-60
50-100
80-150
120-200
150-400
300-600
500+

I know there is overlap here. What I am trying to do is avoid the boundary situation where an artist that tends to be 15-25 has to be arbitrarily put into 20+ or 20-. Overlap should mean that a group exists that covers the majority of sketches by a particular artist.

Having found some price ranges, list the artists for each price group.

What do you think?

____________________
Trade list (mostly comics and scifi). Also lots of sketch cards.
 
Posts: 1573 | Location: temp UK, usually Australia | Registered: July 31, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of steve j
posted Hide Post
Hi Jen

I can see what you are trying to get at. This is a genuine attempt to capture all. The problem is that the sketches are so variable - it may be good to sub-divide again for pencil / pen and coloured or as appropriate.

NSU is a guide after all and this seems to be a good idea.
 
Posts: 1753 | Location: Wales, UK | Registered: June 10, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Diamond Card Talk Member
Picture of hammer
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Yes I can see what you are saying Jen, but even specific characters command different prices from the same artist - Difficult and subject to too many variables (imo)
 
Posts: 11638 | Location: England | Registered: September 16, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of tangent
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I think you are both saying the same thing but from opposite positions Smile I agree, there is a great deal of variation. One approach is to give up (which I actually have a lot of sympathy with) and the other is to try and capture it all with subdividing into smaller and smaller categories. Unfortunately, I believe the latter is completely unworkable. Using bands doesn't 'fix' the problem, but it would provide guidance so a newbie could distinguish between a high end and low end artist, as well as recognition that some sets (eg Star Wars 30th) have higher prices across the board.

I don't believe it is necessary to subdivide further because 90% of an artist's sketches within one set are of similar style. There are some notable exceptions (eg LOTR Evolution Waterhouse) but the reason there is no guide at all on these is the 'all things to all people' doesn't work.

____________________
Trade list (mostly comics and scifi). Also lots of sketch cards.
 
Posts: 1573 | Location: temp UK, usually Australia | Registered: July 31, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
NSU Pricing Specialist
Picture of Bill DeFranzo
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quote:
...One approach is to give up


I like all of the suggestions being put forth. Any method, even the current averages, can serve to show relative weight of one artist's work to another's. Even price ranges can be deceiving, though. For example, showing a price range of 300-600 won't give enough information as to where the individual prices have fallen and at prices that high the number of sales is probably limited anyway. If I were to capture a series of prices for an artist and the range were 300-600 it is not necessarily true that the average would be even close to 450. If it's an average then you need to know something about the standard deviation before relying on the mean. If it's a range then you really need to know the median and the mode(s).

Here is the absolute only way of pricing sketches: report every individual sale along with a photo of the piece of art in question.

____________________
Bill D.

AKA: Promo Czar (self-appointed)
 
Posts: 901 | Location: Hampton NH 03842 | Registered: March 17, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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So Bill, are you volunteering? Wave

Anything is still going to be fuzzy unless you get artists to put exactly the same amount of effort into each sketch they make, and always show the same character. Sometimes I figure out a "mode" for each artist based on rarity, but adjust upward or downward based on how much I like the card compared to its siblings.
.
 
Posts: 2291 | Location: North Augusta, SC, USA | Registered: November 28, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of TWS
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeFranzo:
Here is the absolute only way of pricing sketches: report every individual sale along with a photo of the piece of art in question.

WOW, What a thread...I believe Bill's last statement covers it all as pricing Sketch Cards is so speculative in many areas. With the major differences seen in all of the Sketch Cards from a single Artist from just one release the value would be relative to: Artist, Medium, Quality, Quantity, Desirability...
 
Posts: 2099 | Location: none | Registered: September 05, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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Doing a price guide for sketch cards is like a blunt pencil.

Pointless.!

Even 2 sketches which look alike are in fact diffrent when you look closely and will fetch diffrent prices.

____________________
Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
 
Posts: 27758 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
NSU Pricing Specialist
Picture of Bill DeFranzo
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by allender:
So Bill, are you volunteering? Wave


...not in this life. Elephant

____________________
Bill D.

AKA: Promo Czar (self-appointed)
 
Posts: 901 | Location: Hampton NH 03842 | Registered: March 17, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of justm
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
Doing a price guide for sketch cards is like a blunt pencil.

Pointless.!



My answer is...

Blackadder II

Oops...thought it was 'Name that tv quote'
Big Grin

____________________
Any airsofters out there ?
 
Posts: 1723 | Location: Brentwood-Essex-UK | Registered: April 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of goldenavenger
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by wolfie:
Doing a price guide for sketch cards is like a blunt pencil.

Pointless.!

Even 2 sketches which look alike are in fact diffrent when you look closely and will fetch diffrent prices.



I couldn't disagree more. As a "guide" it can be done and it can be very useful to those who are not hard core into sketch cards. And don't feel like putting in hours of research just to figure out if they have a $10 card or a $300 card.

The biggest supporter of my opinion is that NSU already does pricing for sketch cards! They just seem to pick and choose which ones. A lot of the same arguements for pricing sketch cards can be said for auto too. Are you telling me that the Star Wars Heritage Mark Hamill auto goes for $1,500 every time as listed in the NSU price guide? No, sometimes more sometimes less. It doesn't have as many variables as sketch cards but it's a "guide".

The guide says $10 for a 2005 Robots (Inkworks) base set. I can't seem to get $5 for a set. That's more 50% off the mark, but to anyone looking that set up they will know immediately that the set is not high end. I understand it's a "guide".

I'm not saying prices for sketch cards will cover any and all variables involved with them (multiple characters/double artist signatures/multiple panel versions/etc.) but NSU does pricing currently with certain artists and series.......so, it is possible to give a value in the price "guide".

____________________
I'm looking for colored "Robots the Movie" sketch cards by Inkworks.

http://www.comicartfans.com/Ga...etail.asp?GCat=25744
 
Posts: 1841 | Location: OH, USA | Registered: April 18, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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I see what you are saying but i have allways thought that saying something is worth approx $x is of no use to anyone selling or buying one.

When an item is shown as $15 in the guide and nobody can sell one for more than $3 it is not really much use someone coming on and saying " remember it is only a guide "

A guide to what?

I'm not trying to run down the magazine here, i just don't like price guides, never have.

____________________
Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
 
Posts: 27758 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of justm
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One good thing about a guide, particularly for a collector such as myself who doesn't sell cards, is that you have a rough (albeit very rough sometimes) idea as to the worth of your collection or individual card.

You could say: "What's the point if you're not going to sell it?"

From my own standpoint though, it does add an extra dimension to the hobby. Everyone likes the notion that they've beaten the odds or got a great deal, and having an up to date(ish) price guide at your fingertips (NSU) enables this to be done swiftly. As far as I'm concerned, for my purpose it's accurate enough. If you want to find the real price (at a specific date and time) stick it up for auction.

We all know that some sketch artists work is more sought after, either through skill, rarity or a combination of both, and that colour work is generally worth more than monochrome. It also depends on the quality of the work on a specific set. Theoretically it should be possible to take a mean average after a month or so for each artist on a specific set.

The danger of price guides is that they can also dictate price as well as follow it. If several sellers see an item that they have at a high price that interests them, then the market can become saturated.

Supply and demand.

____________________
Any airsofters out there ?
 
Posts: 1723 | Location: Brentwood-Essex-UK | Registered: April 12, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
Picture of steve j
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I know some of the artists on Scoundrel tabulate the highest and lowest price gained on ebay, and also differentiate if it was one of their 6 back. Whatever method is used, I would love a guide. The sketch card is now so integral to the trading card industry that it deserves its own guide.

If someone decides to undertake this mission I am sure that the sketch card community would help out as much as they could.
 
Posts: 1753 | Location: Wales, UK | Registered: June 10, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of Brimaster
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I have read through all the posts and everyone does bring valid points on both sides.
I still think as sketches become an integral part of the sets now the prices will be even harder to follow. A new set is coming out pretty much every month with sketches in them.
I guess a range can be placed on each artists sketch he or her as done on each set but that range would be very broad and you all know that prices would be @ the higher end. It would take up a lot more space in the NSU when they already stated they made changes do to the amount of sets being produced but maybe that is something that should be done.
I am new to the sketch thing and with Indy and Women of Marvel I have seen some cards sell on that auction site which what I thought as a good price and flipped within a week for more $$$. Some kind of guide might help with some of those things but the guide would need to be on-line and not in print because this new part of the hobby is changing too fast and anything in print would be more than likely outdated before it hits the newsstand or your mail box.
The one other thing I think would make it hard to keep a accurate guide is the following for say LOTR is different then Indy so because artist X sketch was worth $$$$ with LOTR and artist X sketch was worth $$ with Indy. Then you are going to have two different prices for artist X cards and people are going to have issues with that. I think a form of guide is a good thought but I see a lot of things to really make it difficult to do.

Also, how to handle commissions? Even though they aren't officially released cards if artist X also did a commission and that price is $ then there would be three different prices. What if the commission was one of the Artist proofs? I think there are so anythings that need to be addressed.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Brimaster,

____________________
"We have in fact, two kinds of morality, side by side: one that we preach, but do not practice, and another that we practice, but seldom preach."
 
Posts: 852 | Location: Somewhere | Registered: April 07, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
New Card Talk Member
Picture of Vagabond Collector
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The price of a sketch card by an individual artist would have to depend on the product release just like autographs. An artists that has sketch cards in Complete Avengers, DC Legacy, LOTR, Robots and Star Wars would have different pricing in each product depending on different variables such as the amount of cards done for that particular set and popularity of the set and/or property.

A quick example of different pricing of an autograph can be seen in Alias Season 1 and Season 2 by Inkworks. Jennifer Garner's season 1 autograph is listed at $260 and for Season 2 it's $300. The same actress signed the autograph, but it's in a different products release (Season 1 and Season 2).

Also, there isn't a need to list ALL of the artists in the price guide after the first product pricing (just as was mentioned early about Marvel Masterpieces being shorten in the next issue) but the most actively pursued of the set should be listed similar to how DC Legacy is list now. But maybe a few more than the top five, perhaps the top 25% with the rest being listed under the "others" along with the price range given. But now the "others" price range would be more in line and not so wide a margin because the more of top artists would be listed individually.

As for Artist Proofs and what not, as it is already a difficult task to price sketch cards, I would think that the pricing should be limited to sketch cards that are inserted into the packs as much as possible.

Pricing sketch cards is really for the novice collector. Advanced collectors don't need to use a price guide because they already know how the market is on the sketch cards that they collect. Taking a snap shot of the how the market WAS two months ago and putting in print isn't gear towards them. I'd be surprised if they'd actually look at it. But for the newer collectors that are just trying out some non-sport cards, it would be a very good reference guide for their collecting experience.
 
Posts: 3 | Location: California | Registered: April 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Bill DeFranzo:
Here is the absolute only way of pricing sketches: report every individual sale along with a photo of the piece of art in question.


I come from the hockey card world and spent several months tracking and creating a database of low-print run cards (cards less than 25). It was a ton of work, and I spent upwards of 10 hours a week on it.

I can see something like this doable for sketches, but you'd have to literally track every single sketch since they are all 1/1 cards. Then you'd have the issue of going with the venue--do you use eBay, shows, word of mouth sales? What about shill bidders on eBay? What proof do you use for word of mouth sales?

What about case incentive cards--do you use those as well?

It could quickly spiral out of control. Still a great idea, though!...
 
Posts: 228 | Location: Mebane, NC | Registered: February 15, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Heroes For Hire
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Interesting read. I really could have used a price guide on Star Wars Heritage and Complete Avengers a couple of weeks ago. There was no completed or current auctions on the artists to use to compare what I was looking at. A range on the artists would been nice to see to help me make a better informed decision.
 
Posts: 436 | Location: Long Beach, CA | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Heroes For Hire
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I noticed that Beckett is giving a crack at pricing sketch cards in their 2011 Collectible Gaming Almanac for sets released after 2009. Their price ranges are rather interesting to look at and try to use as reference especially for products/artists that haven't had completed auctions to look at on eBay in the past couple weeks.
 
Posts: 436 | Location: Long Beach, CA | Registered: October 15, 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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