The odd thing is that we all expressed a bit of disatisfaction when an earlier (tamer?) ad appeared a while back...and yet we now get a cheap porn-like ad. So much for "user input".

I'm curious -- since these types of ads are relatively new [to NSU], where on earth did they come from? In other words, who is approving them now and who wasn't approving them before (I think I can answer my own question, but I'll let others do that)?

Also -- what do some of the other NSU advertisers think of these ads (ie, other card companies that place multiple ads in a typical NSU issue -- you know which 2 I mean .

And why can't other items be advertised in NSU? Cars, liquor, etc?? Why must they be card sets? It could be that circulation is too low for major advertisers, but still, why not broaden the advertising base? Surely Ultra Pro would want to advertise?

As for a hunks set -- since females are a collecting minority (we assume! , then I think it wouldn't be as profitable to produce a set. Of course, we won't know until one is produced (though there are hunk playing cards, etc out there). Actually, the set would appeal to gay men too so there is a larger audience. Has anyone contacted Playgirl to see if they would be interested <g>? I would think a small company that specializes in the female cards may be open to a male set.

ps: can someone email me privately about the censored thread? I only check the boards on Sat.


-----------------------
Let's trade!

http://www.tony-island.com

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Originally posted by anthonyd:
As for a hunks set -- since females are a collecting minority (we assume! , then I think it wouldn't be as profitable to produce a set. Of course, we won't know until one is produced (though there are hunk playing cards, etc out there). Actually, the set would appeal to gay men too so there is a larger audience. Has anyone contacted Playgirl to see if they would be interested <g>?

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Tony, the thing is, sex like that dooesn't work in *quite* the same way for the majority of women, which is why Playgirl isn't ultimately as popular... or at least that's what I thought. If anyone here wants to prove me wrong...???

--
xSaBx :: Mistress of Stuff ::

'I swear I am completely unimpressed by clever answers'
REMEMBER: Take out the 'removemefirst' from my e-mail address to reply...

Learn to live with it, You do not run NSU, You do not work for NSU, therefore you have no saying in the buisness side of NSU. They have to make decisions and they have to make decisions that they don't like but is necessary for the company.

If the Ads offend you, then rip the ad out of your magazine and throw it away, problem solved. I ripped out all ads involving cigarettes in my gaming magazines because I do not like "cancer sticks"

quote:

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After this was brought to my attention, I looked at this ad. It does look tacky. I can handle the ads for the Benchwarmer and Playboy sets because they show some class in their advertising. The Asian Ectacy series ad looks like something you'd see outside an adult book store.

Unfortunately, in our society "sex sells." Why else would bikini-clad women in stiletto heals be draped over a new sports car at the car shows? Or for that matter, why are these same women leaning on a chopper?

This ad crossed the line.

---

Incase you can't see my Avatar, here it is in all its glory: New Wave Dave

quote:

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Originally posted by New Wave Dave:
Learn to live with it, You do not run NSU, You do not work for NSU, therefore you have no saying in the buisness side of NSU. They have to make decisions and they have to make decisions that they don't like but is necessary for the company.

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True, and occasionally everyone makes a mistake. I think this is one of them. We do have a say in NSU, if we choose not to buy it then that means NSU loses money.

I look forward to hearing Harris'comments on this when he returns from San Diego.

--
xSaBx :: Mistress of Stuff ::

'I swear I am completely unimpressed by clever answers'
REMEMBER: Take out the 'removemefirst' from my e-mail address to reply...

quote:

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Originally posted by New Wave Dave:
Learn to live with it, You do not run NSU, You do not work for NSU, therefore you have no saying in the buisness side of NSU. They have to make decisions and they have to make decisions that they don't like but is necessary for the company.

If the Ads offend you, then rip the ad out of your magazine and throw it away, problem solved. I ripped out all ads involving cigarettes in my gaming magazines because I do not like "cancer sticks"

---

Dave, we're having a constructive topic here, and I've got news for you, we're consumers - we do not have to live with anything. Yes, NSU is a business and they must sell ad space. That being said, the lines are drawn there their paying customers say they are. If the ads that proliferate the magazine are offensive to the majority, they will likely lose readers. We are not attacking NSU, we are voicing our opinions. Silence is a form of acceptance, vocalization is a form of communication.

Regards,

Paul Russell

"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand things with alloys and compositions and things with...molecular structures." -- Ash, Army of Darkness

This situation mirrors one that is happening at my golf club at the moment.
A lot of the members have complained about visitors being allowed to play the course and taking the tee times even though they ( the members ) have allready paid their subscription.

The club has pointed out to them that the golf club exists in a commercial world and needs a set amount of money each year to survive and improve the course.

However the club have said they will stop all visitors if the members between them make up the loss in revenue.

The bottom line is that someone has to pay and in the case of the magazine if it,s not the advertisers then it will be us. Yes we can turn away advertising revenue but ultimatly the price of the magazine would rise to cover it.

I must add that as i don,t have my magazine yet i can,t comment on the picture or if it could have promoted it,s set just aswell with a diffrent picture.

True, they could lose some readers, but then that will force them to put more ads in, making it worse then it is now. Adult cards are apart of Non Sport cards whether you like it or not. At least NSU made the ad decent, would you of rather seen an actual breast in the ad? No I didn't think so.

quote:

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Originally posted by Paul Russell:

quote:

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Originally posted by New Wave Dave:
Learn to live with it, You do not run NSU, You do not work for NSU, therefore you have no saying in the buisness side of NSU. They have to make decisions and they have to make decisions that they don't like but is necessary for the company.

If the Ads offend you, then rip the ad out of your magazine and throw it away, problem solved. I ripped out all ads involving cigarettes in my gaming magazines because I do not like "cancer sticks"

---

Dave, we're having a constructive topic here, and I've got news for you, we're consumers - we do not have to live with anything. Yes, NSU is a business and they must sell ad space. That being said, the lines are drawn there their paying customers say they are. If the ads that proliferate the magazine are offensive to the majority, they will likely lose readers. We are not attacking NSU, we are voicing our opinions. Silence is a form of acceptance, vocalization is a form of communication.

Regards,

Paul Russell

"Don't touch that please, your primitive intellect wouldn't understand things with alloys and compositions and things with...molecular structures." -- Ash, Army of Darkness

---

Incase you can't see my Avatar, here it is in all its glory: New Wave Dave

quote:

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Originally posted by New Wave Dave:
True, they could lose some readers, but then that will force them to put more ads in, making it worse then it is now. Adult cards are apart of Non Sport cards whether you like it or not. At least NSU made the ad decent, would you of rather seen an actual breast in the ad? No I didn't think so.

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Dave, we're not having a conversation about whether Adult cards are or aren't a part of the hobby. They obviously are and there is obviously a market out there - otherwise there wouldn't be new sets year upon year. What we're discussing (in light of all the discussions of censorship, etc. in this past week) is whether or not the ad itself is suitable for NSU. Ultimately, yes, it's up to NSU to decide if it is or isn't, but I'm sure they appreciate input from it's consumers (both positive and negative) and have to decide whether running ads like this will lose them sales revenue even though it's generating ad revenue. I'm sure there are people out there who may very decide that they will not buy NSU at all if they know this kind of material is included (not everyone may want to rip out pages as you have suggested). Personally, the ad doesn't offend me in any way, it is more the tone than the content. Like I said, I accept that adult cards are part of the hobby.

In this issue we have the following:
Sports Illustrated 2003 Swimsuit set (inside front cover)
Two-page Benchwarmers 2003 Series 1 article (p22-23)
Benchwarmers 2003 Series 1 set (p25)
Asian Ecstacy Series 1 (p41)

The first three of these look "classy". High quality pictures of beautiful women done tastefully. Provactive - yes, sleazy or sexually-oriented - no.

However, when you look at the last ad, it's a completely different story. It's lower quality, it has a provocatively dressed woman with a banner over a breast that reads "Hot Asian Desires". The ad also explicitly states "Adults Only - Contains Nudity". This ad in my opinion is miles apart from the others mentioned above. It's tone is different and to me it just screams porn trading card set.

Do consumers want to see this in NSU? From the posts in this thread, and the posts from others, it may well be "no".

Of course, we're all commenting in the absense of an NSU presence here on the board and it'll be interesting to see what the official response to this topic is. However, what was an "what's your opinion" without pointing fingers topic, seems to have started to degrade into yet another "stop your whinging and live with it" one. Oh well ...

-----
"Who knows where thoughts come from? Sometimes, they just appear."


Buffy/Angel collector?
http://www.buffycards.co.uk

It might be best at this point to stop the thread until Harris gets back and can explin the position better from theirpoint of you. It becomes counterproductive at some point.
We as consumers have every right to express how we feel about the things we like and don't like. If after we've expressed our thoughts, we can then either decide to *live with it*, work around it, or walk away, but consider that decisions sometimes get made that we don't understand that were we to know everything, we would likely sit back and say, "oh, ok...that makes sense...sorta anyway...I don't like it, but, It's ok"

Thats because the first 3 contain no nudity in the cards so of course they will look "classy" and the Asian Ecstacy cards does contain nudity but the girl was doing nothing but sitting and implied that her breasts might be shown but the "stamp" looks like it is covered up.

There was nothing porn-like on the ad. This is the tamest ad I've ever seen, Gaming Magazines have far worse ads with women. I bet NSU had to pick an adult ad and that was the cleanest one to print.

quote:

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In this issue we have the following:
Sports Illustrated 2003 Swimsuit set (inside front cover)
Two-page Benchwarmers 2003 Series 1 article (p22-23)
Benchwarmers 2003 Series 1 set (p25)
Asian Ecstacy Series 1 (p41)

The first three of these look "classy". High quality pictures of beautiful women done tastefully. Provactive - yes, sleazy or sexually-oriented - no.

---

Incase you can't see my Avatar, here it is in all its glory: New Wave Dave

I'm really not going to wade into this subject...I almost made a snarky comment about an offensive racial term being used (but not in a racist context) in an earlier post without anyone commenting on it, but thought better of it.

Here's my actual question, though. Back in the heyday of adult trading cards in the mid-nineties, did NSU take any advertising from them then? I know in many ways that point is moot as there was not Card Talk to complain about it in, but I'm just curious.

-Bob-

"Future events such as these will affect YOU in the future!"

I have to say that I was pretty shocked to see the ad in question.
I was half expecting a 1-900 # at the bottom of the page NOT TO MENTION THE CHICK LOOKS 12! They could have used an older looking woman that wasnt dressed in a cheerleader outfit making her look all the younger. I UNDERSTAND these are NON-Sport cards but having them in there is a little unnerving.

a solution...there is a paper we have here called "The Pheonix" and it is a college paper that has all up comming bands and club dates want ads etc. inside the middle of the paper is a folded "ADULT" Section...maybe NSU could do a similar thing that has all the Risque ads inside a small insert in the middle of the mag and advertise the cards and prices in there....that way you DONT have to look at them if you dont want to and you can tear it out (Prefforation) If you want to let your kids read The mag. It may be a little bit more expensive to have this little pull out features BUT this isnt the first time this topic has come up and I think it would be worth looking into.


WHAT??! Did everyone Eat their CRAZY flakes This morning? ~XANDER
~~~WILL WORK FOR CARDS~~~

quote:

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Originally posted by TheUberBob:
Back in the heyday of adult trading cards in the mid-nineties, did NSU take any advertising from them then?

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I believe it did, and I also believe I complained back then...

--
xSaBx :: Mistress of Stuff ::

'I swear I am completely unimpressed by clever answers'
REMEMBER: Take out the 'removemefirst' from my e-mail address to reply...

I wanted to post a response to this topic. Sorry for the delay but with Comic Con and all, things have been very hectic here.

All of us at NSU have read the responses to this topic and discussed the matter at great length. This includes the three Tosers as well as our Editor-in-Chief, Alan Biegel. We really appreciate the comments everyone has made, as well as your passion.

Every ad that is printed in NSU is scrutinized for reproduction in the magazine by our family (as you probably know, NSU is a family-run business operated by Roxanne, Marlin and Harris Toser). As an example, one recent ad was returned to the card manufacturer three times before we agreed to accept it.

While it is hard to put into words exactly what is acceptable and what is not for an NSU ad, there are certain guidelines we follow. Obviously, no nudity or vulgar language is allowed. The ad being discussed here does not contain either of those and when compared to other ads placed by this manufacturer and others, is actually less graphic then some. That is the reason why we accepted the ad.

In the past several issues, we have included ads advertising Playboy and Bench Warmer cards. Obviously, those are more adult-oriented then most non-sport releases and we have only received one complaint. When we received it, I happened to receive my copy of Entertainment Weekly on the same day. While looking through my copy of EW, I noticed much more racy ads in it than the two in NSU.

The comment was made that NSU is a kids-oriented publication, with things like Justice League and Disney inside but to be honest, our demographics have consistently shown that average NSU readers are not children. In fact, our average reader is 35 years old. Take a look around at a card show and you'll see the same thing. This is most likely the same audience that Playboy and Bench Warmer cards are aimed at and purchased by.

It would be nice to be able to say that NSU will no longer accept advertisements for adult-oriented cards, cards with nudity, or certain types of things deemed unacceptable. But where does one draw the line? With the daily events of presidents and basketball stars committing adultery, where exactly is that line anyway? Furthermore, with so few manufacturers in the marketplace, NSU simply cannot afford the luxury of trying to set morality for the non-sport marketplace and/or society at large.

In conclusion, we would again like to thank everyone for expressing their opinions and would like everyone to know that we will definitely try to keep your opinions in mind when we approve future ads for inclusion in NSU.

Visit Non-Sport Update at www.nonsportupdate.com

Everything you said is absolutely correct. You guys are doing a great job! Keep up the great work!

Kevin

Put the key of despair into the lock of apathy. Turn the knob of mediocrity slowly and open the gates of despondency - welcome to a day in the average office.

quote:

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Well said!
You guys are doing a great job! Keep up the great work! --- Kennywood

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- I concur.
(Not that my opinion seems to mean much, lately. )

@@@ ScottEvil

"I am a WATCHER, part of a secret society of men and women who observe and record but never interfere, we know the truth about immortals ....... In the end there can be only one !"

Thanks for the reply Harris. Like I've previously said, I wasn't offended by the ad per se, but it just looked out of place. However, I stand by the judge's ruling and as I think I previously also said it is ultimately up to NSU what they deign suitable or unsuitable.

-----
"Who knows where thoughts come from? Sometimes, they just appear."


Buffy/Angel collector?
http://www.buffycards.co.uk

quote:

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Originally posted by H_Toser:
In conclusion, we would again like to thank everyone for expressing their opinions and would like everyone to know that we will definitely try to keep your opinions in mind when we approve future ads for inclusion in NSU.

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Can't say fairer than that, and you do now at least know what *is* likely to cause offence if you include it...

--
xSaBx :: Mistress of Stuff ::

'I swear I am completely unimpressed by clever answers'
REMEMBER: Take out the 'removemefirst' from my e-mail address to reply...

quote:

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Originally posted by MiniMe:
(Not that my opinion seems to mean much, lately. )

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Actually, it does, just don't waggle it in that particular fashion... okay?

--
xSaBx :: Mistress of Stuff ::

'I swear I am completely unimpressed by clever answers'
REMEMBER: Take out the 'removemefirst' from my e-mail address to reply...

I don't see a problem with any of the ads.

I can't fault a company for trying to design an add that appeals to their perceived audience, and that add while it may seem 'tacky' to some doesn't show nudity and isn't vulgar so I see no problem whatsoever in NSU running it.

Next time you go to a grocery store take a look at all the womens and mens magazines -- take a look at what is one the cover. Read some of the 'headlines' on the covers of those magazines. Those are out in the open in stores that people go into every day.

And for those who are still confused thinking this is a hobby for little kids take a look at the July release schedule on nonsportupdate.com:

* Dragonball Z Trading Cards (Artbox)
* 2003 Bench Warmer Series #1 (Bench Warmer)
* The Saint (Cards Inc.)
* Stingray Factory Set (Cards Inc.)
* The Artwork of Boris and Julie Strokes of Genius
* Vampirella (Dynamic Forces)
* Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life
* The Complete Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
* Dr. Who Big Screen (Strictly Ink)
* The Avengers (Strictly Ink)

FAR more adult sets than kids sets, and actually only one set I would consider being aimed only at kids.

Consider it. . . happy collecting.

Jon

box breakdowns, show reviews, rare autograph gallery and more: www.webjon.com/index.html