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Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of Cecil
posted
I'm a little confused about what warrants a sports cards to be included or excluded from the PCE. Personally I'm more of an ALL IN kind of Non-Sports Collector, with heavy interest in food and product give sways. So, if someone could fill me in that would be awesome!! Thanks!
 
Posts: 711 | Location: Carmel, IN. | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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You'd have to ask Todd Jordan but he seemed to me to be of a mind to make sure as many promos were documented somehow as possible. He even listed oddball cards that weren't promos, but because they weren't in any other guide, he included them.

He might have noticed that the sports card guides weren't covering all the promos he knew about especially not the ones related to sports like boxing, billiards, golf, soccer, tennis, various Olympic events, and others not traditionally associated with trading cards. A purist wouldn't have counted them but Todd took them in. I assume he has more than two pets and all of them were once strays.


quote:
Originally posted by Cecil:
I'm a little confused about what warrants a sports cards to be included or excluded from the PCE. Personally I'm more of an ALL IN kind of Non-Sports Collector, with heavy interest in food and product give sways. So, if someone could fill me in that would be awesome!! Thanks!
 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of promoking
posted Hide Post
Originally posted by Cecil:
I'm a little confused about what warrants a sports cards to be included or excluded from the PCE. Personally I'm more of an ALL IN kind of Non-Sports Collector, with heavy interest in food and product give sways. So, if someone could fill me in that would be awesome!! Thanks!


Well here's my opinion, generally on this. I believe that there are several categories that distinguish sports from non sports cards.


First, If a card depicts an athlete supporting a cause or representing a product that is not directly related to his or her sport then it is a non-sport card or set. For example several sets immediately come to mind. The A1 Master Chefs set where athletes share their secret recipes; the Milk Bone set which depicts athletes and their dogs; the Gridiron(there are 2 different ones) sets showing athletes dressed in various costumes ready to do battle and the It's a Fact Series showcasing various athletes pitching their position against drug use.

Yes, they are sports figures BUT they are NOT appearing on behalf of their craft in the card(s) but rather as celebrities, just as any other celebrity would be, endorsing a product or lending their status to a worthy cause .

The other category of "sports" cards that are non-sport include the ones that depict illustrations or paintings of an athlete rather than a photograph with the typical bio info of that athlete on the card or when there is a mixture of a real life athlete combined with a fictional or comic character on the card.
The ones that come to mind are the Julie Bell 6 card set (again 2 different versions)which is a true work of art even though it depicts painted versions of real athletes. The other ones are the Comic Ball One and Two series which show real life athletes and comic characters such as Bugs Bunny etc.. Space Jam cards are another example of this genre.

Therefore, even if an athlete is shown on the card, if there is a comic or fictional character accompanying him or her then it's non sport.

The third category of classifying a "sports" card or set as non sports is when the card or set promotes a product or event that may be sports related but the venue through which this promotion is being distributed is non sport related.
Examples of this is the set called Baseball: the American Epic. Yes, This set is clearly about Baseball BUT it was produced in cooperation with General Motors for a TV documentary about the history of the game. hence, the topic is sports but the medium through which the set came about was non sports rather than sports. Another example is a neat little set called Babe Ruth. This 9 card promo set was produced for the 1991 NBC TV show "Babe Ruth". again, was Babe Ruth a baseball player? Of course, but this set is considered non sport because the reason it came about was as a result of a TV show.

Well, I could continue to expound on my opinion and give further examples as to why a card is non sport even though athletes are involved but I will stop here and see what others have to say or not..
Hope I have answered your question!

____________________
 
Posts: 833 | Location: fort lauderdale fl usa | Registered: May 22, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Bronze Card Talk Member
Picture of Cecil
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Promoking, your first 2 points were dead on my thoughts exactly. Not having the experience that you have with the 3rd point, I'll just have to read up on it and try to get an understanding as you obviously have. I never claim to know it all, I am very open minded. Thanks for your excellent input!
 
Posts: 711 | Location: Carmel, IN. | Registered: February 07, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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I agree. It's a sports promo when it promotes a sports card set. However, along with your examples there's a difference between a statistics-based card/set and one that more about the history of the sport or sports in general. That can be a gray area, though. but it applies to the promos for the documentary you mentioned and something like "The Whitehall Collection" prototypes which promote a set celebrating legendary baseball players as well as a photo-manipulation process that makes the players in the photo look more life-like.

I tend to think of promos for something like a set honoring Babe Ruth or other legendary player as in that non-sport gray area when the set covers his life inside and outside of baseball - a biography rather than a reflection of a particular year or career. In that way it's more of a historical set especially if the back text leans that way.

I also tend to include promos that promote a range of sports especially if they include one outside of baseball, football, basketball, and auto racing. That Twizzlers: Team 2002 set would an example. It promoted athletes/sports in general.

In any case I think Todd was right to include a number of sports promos that would not seem to fit the non-sports category at least until someone assembles a comprehensive list of sports promos.

Jess


quote:
Originally posted by promoking:
Originally posted by Cecil:
I'm a little confused about what warrants a sports cards to be included or excluded from the PCE. Personally I'm more of an ALL IN kind of Non-Sports Collector, with heavy interest in food and product give sways. So, if someone could fill me in that would be awesome!! Thanks!


Well here's my opinion, generally on this. I believe that there are several categories that distinguish sports from non sports cards.


First, If a card depicts an athlete supporting a cause or representing a product that is not directly related to his or her sport then it is a non-sport card or set. For example several sets immediately come to mind. The A1 Master Chefs set where athletes share their secret recipes; the Milk Bone set which depicts athletes and their dogs; the Gridiron(there are 2 different ones) sets showing athletes dressed in various costumes ready to do battle and the It's a Fact Series showcasing various athletes pitching their position against drug use.

Yes, they are sports figures BUT they are NOT appearing on behalf of their craft in the card(s) but rather as celebrities, just as any other celebrity would be, endorsing a product or lending their status to a worthy cause .

The other category of "sports" cards that are non-sport include the ones that depict illustrations or paintings of an athlete rather than a photograph with the typical bio info of that athlete on the card or when there is a mixture of a real life athlete combined with a fictional or comic character on the card.
The ones that come to mind are the Julie Bell 6 card set (again 2 different versions)which is a true work of art even though it depicts painted versions of real athletes. The other ones are the Comic Ball One and Two series which show real life athletes and comic characters such as Bugs Bunny etc.. Space Jam cards are another example of this genre.

Therefore, even if an athlete is shown on the card, if there is a comic or fictional character accompanying him or her then it's non sport.

The third category of classifying a "sports" card or set as non sports is when the card or set promotes a product or event that may be sports related but the venue through which this promotion is being distributed is non sport related.
Examples of this is the set called Baseball: the American Epic. Yes, This set is clearly about Baseball BUT it was produced in cooperation with General Motors for a TV documentary about the history of the game. hence, the topic is sports but the medium through which the set came about was non sports rather than sports. Another example is a neat little set called Babe Ruth. This 9 card promo set was produced for the 1991 NBC TV show "Babe Ruth". again, was Babe Ruth a baseball player? Of course, but this set is considered non sport because the reason it came about was as a result of a TV show.

Well, I could continue to expound on my opinion and give further examples as to why a card is non sport even though athletes are involved but I will stop here and see what others have to say or not..
Hope I have answered your question!
 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Here's an example of something that looks like a sports card but actually counts as a non-sports card. It's a promo card for "Memory Makers," a collection of art by Gene Locklear, who specializes in portraits of athletes. The card back discusses Locklear's approach to art and hardly mentions that he also played 10 years of Major League Baseball, painting before, during, and after that career.


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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This card has the front design of Bob Uecker's 1963 Topps baseball card but the back promotes a 1988 bike ride/festival raising money for the United Performing Arts Fund. Uecker was the honorary chairman.


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
New Card Talk Member
Picture of stevesaunders
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How about that second baseman for the Springfield Isotopes, Willie “The Dupe” Dipken! Where does he fit into this discussion? (tongue firmly implanted in cheek) Dance
 
Posts: 9 | Location: Wilbrahm, MA USA | Registered: September 21, 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of pcetodd
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yep the answers here are correct. I only have two pets, dogs, and they are pound puppies. I only take in stray promos cards.

And I am even of the mind to include partial promo sets, ones that may feature a baseball player on one card, and a figure skater on another, and a pro-wrestler on another. Listing the ones that are not the major sports seems to me to be up the alley of non-sport peeps. So long as it was a giveaway of some sort. Some of the National Sports Collector Convention promos come to mind.

PCE doesn't cover baseball, football, basketball, hockey, car racing, soccer, or cricket. Probably should include rugby in that exclusion list, but rugby cards are covered for now.

PCE does cover historic sports sets, some artwork sports promo sets (like Baseball Art for example, where someone paints sports scenes on a baseball). And yeah, sets that might feature a sports figure, but not in uniform or playing the game. Like the Milkbone set, and others mentioned from others above.
 
Posts: 2180 | Location: Maine | Registered: August 04, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Cards that bridge the boundary between sports and nonsports were a big interest of mine when I was more active as a collector. Off the top of my head --

Bull Durham movie sets
Kevin Costner cards in the 1988 and 89 Star Durham Bulls minor league cards sets
John Goodman as Babe Ruth in a card for that movie (I believe this was a perforated insert in Topps Magazine?)
Card of Ronald Reagan playing Grover Cleveland Alexander in "The Winning Team"
Topps set for the Broadway play revival "Damn Yankees"
Topps set for the 1991 movie "Babe Ruth"
"A League of Their Own" card
"Blue Chips" movie card set
"Eight Men Out" movie card set
 
Posts: 1450 | Location: Huntsville, AL United States | Registered: November 30, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Here's a 2 x 3 inch card featuring "Shoeless Joe" Jackson. It is the same size and has the same front as a card in the 25-card factory set, "The 1919 'Black Sox': Unique Team Set Reprint" but the back is different. It promotes a "special offer" of 1919 Chicago "Black Sox" memorabilia, including the card set, available through the Greg Manning Company, Inc. The card is undated but the set was released in 1992.

The set was designed by TNTL Studios but the Greg Manning Company Inc. but might have been its manufacturer and major retailer.

Jess


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post



Silver Card Talk Member
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Here's an oddball promo (circa 1990, Legend) with MLB Hall of Famer, Wade Boggs, pitching his "Slammer Batting Machine," a tee-like hitting target for batting practice at home. It's a card for the Wade Boggs collector who thought he had everything.


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Hi Todd,

Here's the Baseball Art promo card:





quote:
Originally posted by pcetodd:
yep the answers here are correct. I only have two pets, dogs, and they are pound puppies. I only take in stray promos cards.

And I am even of the mind to include partial promo sets, ones that may feature a baseball player on one card, and a figure skater on another, and a pro-wrestler on another. Listing the ones that are not the major sports seems to me to be up the alley of non-sport peeps. So long as it was a giveaway of some sort. Some of the National Sports Collector Convention promos come to mind.

PCE doesn't cover baseball, football, basketball, hockey, car racing, soccer, or cricket. Probably should include rugby in that exclusion list, but rugby cards are covered for now.

PCE does cover historic sports sets, some artwork sports promo sets (like Baseball Art for example, where someone paints sports scenes on a baseball). And yeah, sets that might feature a sports figure, but not in uniform or playing the game. Like the Milkbone set, and others mentioned from others above.
 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Here's an oddball card that was inserted with one of the Johnny Lightning "Surf Rods" (2001) die-cast toy cars. The backing of the packaging calls the cards "snapshots" but the cards themselves have no identifying marks - no
set title, publication date, nor even the company logo. This is unusual because all the other Johnny Lightning cards I've seen have at least the logo on the front even if the back is blank. The fronts show black-and-white, surfing-related photos from the 1960's with a brief caption. They measure 2 3/8 x 2 3/8 inches, the cardstock is a little thicker than usual and the backs are blank. Set number unknown.


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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The front of this card looks like a baseball card from the 40's or 50's but it's actually from 1981. It's card #8 (Ted Williams) from a 20 card set promoting a baseball card show in San Diego that year. The back of the card promotes the show but the text also says you could get 50 cents off admission with it so it's sort of combination promo card/coupon. This is one of the early show promo cards. Promo cards didn't become a thing until the early 90's but a number of companies were giving them out in the 80's.


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Here is a seldom-seen "preview card" for Fighting Stars (1991, Otomix, Inc.). I couldn't find a mention of the set on the web so it might be another for the list of trading card projects that didn't get past the promo card stage. You don't see a lot of martial arts-related trading cards other than a few movie cards (Warner Bros. VHS card for "Enter the Dragon") and sets ("Kung Fu Hustle") out there. This one features karate instructor and champion, Pat Johnson, who did appear in "Enter the Dragon."


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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quote:
Originally posted by catskilleagle:
You don't see a lot of martial arts-related trading cards other than a few movie cards (Warner Bros. VHS card for "Enter the Dragon") and sets ("Kung Fu Hustle") out there.


You seem to have forgotten the Kung Fu set and Test Set issued by Topps in 1973, A & BC in 1974 and Scanlens in 1975. I knew about the Topps and A & BC set but I didn't know about the Scanlens set until I checked Allenders listings.

regards

John

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Posts: 1679 | Location: United Kingdom | Registered: October 14, 2001Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Titanium Card Talk Member
Picture of wolfie
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quote:
Originally posted by JOHN LEVITT:

You seem to have forgotten the Kung Fu set and Test Set issued by Topps in 1973, A & BC in 1974 and Scanlens in 1975.

regards

John


When you can take the cards from my hand Grasshopper you get the special limited edition one.

____________________
Come, it is time for you to keep your appointment with The Wicker Man.
 
Posts: 28310 | Location: wolverhampton staffs uk | Registered: July 19, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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Here's a promo that looks like the famous Honus Wagner T206 tobacco card but the back promotes an auction house and its sale of an actual Honus Wagner T206 card. This one measures 1 1/2 x 2 5/8 inches.


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Silver Card Talk Member
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This is card 4 (Emmitt Smith) of a 4-card set, Sportstars (Ed David Productions, 1992) promoting a collection of watercolor and oil portraits of star athletes by artist Ed David. It is said to have been given out at sports card shows. It's serial-numbered out of 25,000 on the back.


 
Posts: 1642 | Location: San Jose, CA, USA | Registered: December 23, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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